Friday, October 08, 2004


The Truth They Dare Not Speak

Bush and his minions are reluctantly admitting there were no WMDs in Iraq, and everyone is jumping on it and they're on the defensive and it's a big media issue. To those with some common sense it's just as meaningless now that they admit it as it was when they claimed it in the first place. WMDs were a nice selling point, but with a tyrant like Saddam we shouldn't really need an excuse to impose regime change and free the oppressed people of Iraq.

Given the reality of global politics and the reality of the Bush administration's foreign policy, they really did need a compelling reason to go into Iraq. If it wasn't WMDs - and even if the administration believed they were there, they were never really their primary interest - then what was the reason? The nattering nitwits on the left will rave on that it was all for oil, an argument which even a child who has read a few newspapers would laugh at. We don't need Iraq to get oil, and oil was already coming out of Iraq anyway under the disastrous and corrups oil for food program, plus we're not profitting as a nation from Iraqi oil now that the war is over, nor are our businesses, at least not any more than any one else is. That argument is just silly.

Yet there is a real and compelling reason for going into Iraq and the beauty of it, the reason why Bush has had to defend the WMD claim to the death and walk with tiptoes around exactly what we're doing there and why it's absolutely worth going into Iraq, is a reason which no one who understands or is in a position of power can even dare to speak aloud. The true reason we're in Iraq is so important and so dangerous and such a high stakes play that it could inflame a world war if Bush came right out and stated it.

To see what they're not saying all you have to do is look at a map and remember the last 20 years of history in the Middle East. While you look at the map, consider which two countries we have invaded in the 3 years since the 9/11 attack. What do Iraq and Afghanistan have in common? Only one thing unites them. Afghanistan borders Iran to the east and Iraq borders Iran to the west. By invading those two countries and establishing a military presence in each of them, we have effectively surrounded Iran. Going back to 1980 and looking at the problems in the Middle East, what country comes up again and again as a source of terrorism, as the single most powerful nation antagonistic to the US and the most potentially dangerous nation to our interests in that part of the world? Which country has the largest and most modern army? Which country is an anti-American theocracy run by implacable ideologues? Which country has agents operating against secular governments from India to Egypt? Which country is developing its own Nuclear Bomb (a real WMD)? Which country is sending all the terrorists into Iraq to fight back against our army? The answer to all of those questions is Iran. It's probably the most dangerous nation in the world right now, including North Korea and it's absolutely set on the destruction of the US.

Iran is a tough nut to crack. We don't want to invade Iran. We want to neutralize it, place pressure on it and bring it to under control. How do we do that without invading? We take over the two screwed up but easy to conquer countries bordering it, move troops and cooperative governments in and surround Iran with enemies. That's the truth Bush dare not speak and the real reason we invaded Iraq. Iran is the heart of islamic extremism and Iraq is the key to neutralizing Iran. Don't expect to hear that in a debate, but when you listen to Bush remember that this is the truth which he can never speak and which we have to understand and know that he has in mind throughout his dangerous ventures in the Middle East.


12 comments:

Circa Bellum said...

pure genius! I've admired your work for a while, but this is great. Thanks for an insight that I wasn't sharp enough to think of.

g

katie nalle said...

Good to know someone is actually reading the new blogified version of the page.

I didn't want to ramble on too long in my initial commentary on this issue, but there's a lot more too it.

Because Iran is a burgeoning nuclear power and has so much more militiary, economic and political clout than Afghanistan or Iraq, it has to be handled with kid gloves.

Previous administrations from Carter on have looked at the option of invading Iran and rejected the option as impractical. In the 80s the Russians even made it clear that they would step in if we invaded Iran, though I don't think that applies any longer.

Iraq was a perfect candidate for invasion because although it is a large and potentially wealthy nation, it was already in disarray from the previous war, from sanctions and from Saddam's mismanagement. And the other key difference from Iran is that Iran enjoys a certain stature with other Islamic nations because it is an Islamic republic/theocracy and a lot of other moslems find that very attractive. Iraq under Saddam was a clearly secular nation. While Saddam was not anti-moslem, his government and Iraqi society were primarily secular in orientation. Thus, an attack on Saddam is not an automatic holy war the way an attack on Iran would be.

Dave

katie nalle said...

This is off topic in response to my original post, but I guess you deserve some sort of response.

>>Thanks for writing the above on my blog, what Michael Moore being "fat" or from a "depressed industrial town", I'm not sure, but your whole comment does make a compelling case. The fact that you present no evidence to the contrary tells me that your logic is not to be trifled with. I'll let any fatties and/or people from depressed communities know their opinion is now worthless. Thanks for the tip!!!<<

If you don't already know about all the fallacies and misrepresentations in Michael Moore's propaganda pieces then you're probably beyond hope of any logic or factual presentation. Most people with at least a little common sense who sit through Fahrenheit 911 can see the obvious half-truths and distortions, though they may miss the more substnatial re-edits of interviews and soundbites. But I guess you missed those when you watched it.

Fortunately plenty of people have cataloged all of Moore's innaccuracies and misrepresntations. Take a look at the new dvd Fahrenhype 911 for some in-depth corrections, or if you want a more non-partisan source with a devastating debunking of Moore and his work just take a look at www.spinsanity.com

I guess I should have gone into more depth, but I sometimes forget how essential ignorance is as a basic qualification for those who embrace the leftist agenda.

Dave

katie nalle said...

"By the way, sweet theory about Iran. Why didn't I think of it!!! Bush was letting Iran get nuclear weapons because he's waiting for his chance to pounce! Oooooooooooh I hope there's an inter-dimensional portal to North Korea in the center of Iran. That way we can just run the table. Unfortunately Saudi Arabia appears to be a little out of the way. Oh well, they have nothing to do with terrorism in the US anyways. Keep up the good fight though!!! Have a great day!!!"

So the nukes in Iran are Bush's fault? Not at all the fault of the French who built the reactors and gave the Iranians the technology? Oh wait, the French can do no wrong because they are going to cure the world of the cultural pollution which is America.

Just put your head back in the hole...it's happier there.

Dave

katie nalle said...

>>Farenhype by Dick Morris...why didn't I think of that. <<

Farenhype isn't by Dick Morris, he's only the narrator. You would get a lot farther if you had at least some idea what you were talking about

>>I hope Mr. Morris has hookers in the DVD, Dick Morris lllllllloves hookers. <<

He loves them best while on the phone with Bill Clinton as Clinton was getting it on with Monica. Can't beat that.

>>And he doesn't have any sector of the population he's pandering to, now that Clinton fired. I mean just look at the good work he's doing for Sean Hannity and Fox News. <<

Not that familiar with his work there. I find Hannity too dogmatically conservative to watch. It gets tedious.

>>And I just adore Spinsanity.com too. They're absolutely the laziest website on the planet. Unfortunately in regards to Michael Moore, many of his facts were, in fact, backed up by the 911 report.<<

Actually, most of the insinuations from Moore's film were definitively disproven by the 911 report. If you actually take the trouble to read it or even read the abstracts it becomes clear how incredibly weak many of Moore's strongest seeming points are. Like the ridiculous tissue of coincidences about the Bin Ladens and other Saudis leaving the US right after 911.

>>I, personally, was very disappointed in F911 and I say so in a previous post on my blog. I thought it wandered too much and didn't focus on the right topics (WMD's, ties to al-Qaeda-Saddam). <<

That's Moore's style. The wandering, personal nature of his films is their most endearing characteristic. Makes him more believable, even if what he's saying is utter hogwash.

>>I'm much more interested in it's ability to erode voter support for President Bush, no more, no less.<<

Since you want the country firmly locked in a decline into poverty and depression.

>>As for Iran and North Korea, absolutely the President bears some responsibility in that. Clinton did the leg work in North Korea to put at least inspectors, locks and cameras on their weapons. Today there's none, because Bush wouldn't sit down at a table with Kim Jong-Il. <<

Have you noticed that Kim is an irrational lunatic? Not someone you can talk to. Bush's plan to use China to put pressure on the Koreans is much more intelligent and much more likely to produce real results.

>>Same with Iran, Bush took us to war with Iraq, when Iran increased their weapons capability. Where's the consistency in that, now Bush claims he's going to use diplomacy with Iran. A country with real ties to terrorism AND WMD's. Thanks Bush, keep up the good work. <<

He has to say he's going to try diplomacy. A war with Iran is unsellable. But diplomacy from a position of strength is his pattern. And having Afghanistan and Iraq surrounding Iran gives us the strength to possibly make them actually behave themselves. Just going there and begging as Kerry would do amd as Clinton did with North Korea is nothing but an embarassment.

>>To pretend that Bush has some sort of Grand Plan to play tic-tac-toe with Arab nations is ridiculous. On one level, you assume Bush has the capability to think ahead to the next war with Iran, when he can't even take Fallujah. And secondly, I'm sure the over-stretched military will be happen to hear they're going into Iran next, I'm sure we can spare the troops.<<

I actually never said we were going to invade Iran. The logical plan is to use our current position to pressure Iran. What I said was that we invaded Iraq because we couldn't invade Iran. Iraq and Afghanistan give us the leverage we need on Iran and the clout we need in the middle east as a whole, without the high risk of actually attacking Iran.

>>As for France, I don't know what you're talking about. I said nothing of the kind that I thought France bore no responsibility to Iran's weapon capabilities. <<

I know your memory is short, but you DID say that Bush was responsible for Iran having nukes.

>>I know it'd be easier for you if we believed what O'Reilly or Hannity said we believed in, but it's just lazy thinking. Stop watching Fox, it'll make you think clearer.<<

Read some of my posts before you show your ignorance. The chances that I'd be on the same page as Hannity or O'Reilly are vanishingly small. O'Reilly is on the wrong side of almost every issue and Hannity is just a flack for the administration.

Dave

katie nalle said...

SGO seems to have mistaken me for a Bush fan. Not sure how he got that idea. The fact that I accept the lesser of the two evils we're being offered doesn't mean that I have to like it.

But on the issue of Iraq, how the war is going is defined by your preconceptions of what the objectives of the war are. If you think the war ought to have been won in 6 months and everyone in Iraq would be going to the mall and eating at McDonalds then you were deluded. No number of men, no improvements in preparation, no additional allies would have made that a reality. Anyone who thought that was what we were getting into in Iraq was just a fool. And I think that many of those who supported the war early and have since backed off were living in that fantasyland.

What the war IS producing is a remarkable focusing of the terror issue in a single location where we can fight it on our own terms. Drawing in terrorists from all over the world to fight more or less in the open in Iraq is a major step forward in the war on terror. Terrorists fight best when they fight in the shadows. Making them fight even a guerilla war brings them one step closer to being caught. Invading Iraq has made that possible.

I'm working on an article on this subject so I'm not going much farther with it here, but there's a lot more to the war than body counts, elections and who 'controls' what piece of ground at any given time.

Dave

katie nalle said...

>>
Farenhype isn't by Dick Morris, he's only the narrator. You would get a lot farther if you had at least some idea what you were talking about
- except that he is, and it tells you right on the front page of http://www.fahrenhype911.com/. Reading is fun AND informative. I'm getting farther now. Thanks!!!<<

But apparently not any farther than the front page. Morris is the voice of the narrative and the lead 'searcher' as described by the page, but in fact he's merely a hired spokesman who narrates the film, not the actual source of the information or author of the content of the film.

>>He loves them best while on the phone with Bill Clinton as Clinton was getting it on with Monica. Can't beat that.
- I miss a President that didn't need puppet strings.<<

Damn you're old. Who would that be, George Washington?
>>See, that's the problem. I did read it. And I think I've shown the difference in our reading comprehension. <<

Yep, you can read the first page of something and I can read the rest of it too.

>>If you would've seen the film, all Michael Moore wanted was for them to be asked some questions. <<

No, what Moore does is misrepresent events of the post-911 period to make his political points based on insinuations and distortions of fact. As for asking questions, we have to catch the terrorists to ask the questions. Unlike Michael Moore I'm pretty sure the terrorists are the ones with the answers, not George W. Bush. When the source of the problem is obvious I don't find it necessary to imagine bizarre conspiracies instead of going after the obvious villains.

>>Is that wrong? Can the FBI ask them questions? Can't we ask the family of the man who murdered 3000 Americans some questions. (psst.....http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf)<<

Nice broken link there. Try going to http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm and hitting the link for the full report - it's a long read, but it may clear up a lot of your confusion.

>>- Yes, conservative logic. I really love it. I'm AGAINST the President, so I'm FOR poverty.<<

No, you're for Kerry so you're for a tax policy which will lead to a definitive economic decline which will drive a lot of people into poverty. The logic isn't THAT hard to follow is it?

>> Wait hold on I got another one. I'm AGAINST the handling of the Iraq war, so I'm FOR rape rooms. <<

Well, if you say so. I'd have said that being against the Iraq war made you for the growth of more problems in the world with Islamic extremism. That doesn't necessarily mean future rape rooms, though it does mean more beheaded tourists.

>>YES!!! Conservative logic is fun.<<

Well, logic is. Liberals who eventually grasp logic ultimately cease to be liberals.
>>- Unfortunately, Bush's "plan", as you call it, is already shit, since North Korea has increased his nuclear weapons, not decreased. See, we can't pretend the last 4 years didn't happen, the last 4 years was Bush's PREVIOUS plan. Bush's previous "plan" involved ignoring North Korea and hoping China would put pressure on them. <<

Gee, do you think Bush might have had some other more immediate problems to deal with. It's getting somewhat pointless to talk to you. Worse than when I was trying to hammer history into the heads of Freshman nursing majors.

>>Pssssst...it didn't work, now 4 years later, guess what he's going to do, he's going to SIT DOWN with Il. <<

His patronimic is Kim, not Il.

>>
- Yes, a war with Iran is unsellable to the American people since he lied through his teeth for this one.<<

Keep drinking the kool-aid. If Bush lied then Kerry, Edwards and everyone else lied. Doesn't it make a hell of a lot more sense to think that maybe they were basing their conclusions on bad data rather than lying? Why go looking for convoluted conspiracies when the truth is so obvious?

>> Yes, Kerry would "beg". That's definitely been part of any President's plan. See, unfortunately, the "facts" don't support anything you say. The fact is, Iraq, Iran, and North Korea are all more dangerous now, than before this President took office. And that is "fact". Terrorism now thrives in Iraq, Iran and North Korea have increased their nuclear capabilities. Unfortunately, the facts suck for conservatives. But don't worry, Bush is on top of it, have no fear. He definitely seems like the smart, tough-minded individual for the job.<<

At least we agree on that. In the face of tough opposition we don't need an appeaser.

Well, it's getting towards time to move on to another topic, methinks. Responding to the same old weak arguments is taking up time that I need for my next article.

But thanks for trying and get a pry-bar and see if you can open your mind just a tiny bit.

Dave
 

katie nalle said...

>>Bush supporter and voter for but not Fan eh?<<

That's about the size of it. I reluctantly support Bush because of the lack of better options. At the same time I despise those who make illogical, unfounded attacks on him. He's no prize, but go after him for his real flaws, not the silly BS that most liberals fall back on.

>>Neo Con? <<

Ah, the one group I despise as much as liberals. The people who are dragging the republican party down to destruction.

>>War Monger?<<

Sure, I think that war has its uses. Doesn't mean I think we should invade everywhere, but if we pick our battles and follow them through to the right conclusion we can make a better world.

>>Hatemonger?<<

Anyone who doesn't like Liberalism is a hater, right?

>>Conservative?<<

On some issues, sure. Not on others.

>>Regressive?<<

What's a regressive? I consider myself politically progressive. I'm in favor of positive, forward-looking solutions to problems.

>>Which Label do ya want?<<

Generally reliance on labels just makes one look like a fool. I try to avoid them. But, if you must insist on labels you can call me a pro-property libertarian progressive. Or a Liberty Republican - if you don't know what that is, go to
http://www.rlc.org/?p=FAQ

>>Look ,
You missed my point
The Pride I spoke of is not Pride for Bush, but rather the self pride we all have. The thing that makes it very hard to change our minds - To see the facts in front of us and confront the beliefs that don't fit. To admitt error and mistake and to take responsibility for our actions. <<

Ok, I'm familiar with this.

>>Bush refuses to do this.<<

Yep, it's one of his great failings. I think that he despises the liberal critics who have been so harsh to him so unfairly so much that he's become somewhat irrational about it.

>>your position seems to me is:
"Don't change Horsemen in the middle of the apocalypse. "
You'd just rather stick with Death.<<

No, I just don't see a looming apocalypse. The doom and gloom, chicken-little outlook on the world is counter-productive and generally held by liberals who get scared and don't have the fortitude to look for solutions to problems, preferring to throw up their hands and hide their heads. Even if things are bad we have to look for real solutions which don't sacrifice our liberty. My main objection to Kerry in foreign policy is that his solutions sacrifice individual liberty and national sovereignty for an uncertain hope for salvation from external sources. That doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

Dave

katie nalle said...

>>Please provide your evidence that Kerry will
"sacrifice individual liberty and national sovereignty for an uncertain hope for salvation from external sources"<<

Did I ask you to provide evidence that he won't? Why is it that liberals are always asking for evidence of things which are always well established in common knowledge. Is it that things which everyone already knows are mysteries to them, or did someone tell them to make busy work for those of us who care enough to bother to talk to them?

>>This is a complex question which we will breakdown for you into a few parts.
1. What are the individual liberties that Kerry will sacrifice.<<

Well, first off our property rights in the form of increased taxes. Next, our basic right of freedom when he institutes a draft. Finally, our most fundamental civil rights when he puts us subject to international tribunals instead of juries of our peers.

>>1a. How will Kerry sacrifice these individual liberties? <<

Why do I have to explain the obvious to you? Kerry is in favor of a whole slew of government expansions which will put them further in our pocket and even more in our lives. Just taking away our money and our freedom of choice with his national healthcare plan is enough to damn him from a Libertarian perspective. Add to that his willingness to subjugate us to the UN and you've got a disaster for liberty waiting to happen.

>>2. What is an "uncertain hope for for salvation from external sources"? Please Define.<<

I'm not really here to make up for the fact that you don't read a newspaper or even watch the news on TV. Kerry thinks we can bring in France and Germany to save our bacon in Iraq, even though they've both said that they would not help us out whether Kerry asks them or not.

>>2a. What is the relationship between an "uncertain hope for for salvation from external sources" and the above individual liberties?<<

Ok, I'm done explaining the obvious after this. If we sell out our interests to the UN, then we're on our way down the road to accepting more and more of their insane anti-liberty policies.

>>3. How will Kerry sacrifice National Security?<<

I can think of some ways, but I never said that he would. I said he would sacrifice our National Sovereignty, not security.

Ok, I'm not going to respond to any more postings of silly questions that can be answered by reading a Kerry speech or picking up a newspaper.

Dave

katie nalle said...

>>I thought that this might have been a good exercise for students to follow along with, however it appears that not to be the case.<<

I wasn't aware that this was a classroom, but you do seem to delight in lecturing, so perhaps it is for you.

>>Your answers to my questions were of such poor argumentative quality they contain no real teaching value - save to show how to create a poor arguement, but alas that was not my aim. <<

My answers were of the quality merited by your questions, which were basically without substance, just the same old worn out liberal attacks based on faulty assumptions and a lack of knowledge. It's not a good use of my time to try to educate you from the ground up when you're clearly not interested in learning.

>>I note that on your blog it states that you are a teacher. This disapoints me greatly as it appears that you fail to understand the exercise of dialogue. <<

I understand dialogue. Dialogue is not the process of asking silly questions based on a lack of understanding of the subject and then demanding an answer based on your flawed assumptions. That's just ranting.

>>As a teacher, you know that rational dialogue is the path to critical thinking and furthermore the expansion of knowledge itself. ( btw...I can provide evidence for this statement if so required.)<<

Rational dialogue requires both reason - which you clearly are not operating from, and a grounding in the facts relevant to the subject being discussed - which you also show no evidence of having. Your lack of reason is demonstrated by the fact that you base your questions on what are clearly articles of pure faith, not fact.

>>The point here was to have a rational discussion with you regarding your positions - to possibly reach a point of understanding on my part.<<

You don't seem to have the basic informational background to carry on such a discussion. When you have some basic understanding of current events, history and economics then I'd be glad to hold a discussion with you.

>>More directly, to attempt to understand one statement in particular.
Kerry will "sacrifice individual liberty and national sovereignty for an uncertain hope for salvation from external sources"<<

This part of your series of questions I did at least answer. Did you miss those answers?

>>I presented to you very sound and simply put questions, that should have prompted you to simple straightforward answers defending your position. Straightforward answers that can be backed up with quotes and actual facts (evidence, not conjecture nor opinion) are the key to a persuasive argument. Personal attacks and statements without supporting evidence are neither good nor sound tactics.<<

So true. Your questions, of course, were in the nature of personal attacks. They were classic examples of questions which have as their basis a false assumption and require the querant to answer as if that false assumption were fact. It's a classic ruse of misdirection and I'm not even going to begin to play along.

>>As it appears that you don't wish to have this dialogue, induldge me and let's just consider just a small part of your argument.
I ask,
>>1a. How will Kerry sacrifice these individual liberties? <<
You respond,
>>>"Why do I have to explain the obvious to you? "
and again
>>2. What is an "uncertain hope for for salvation from external sources"? Please Define.<<
>>>"I'm not really here to make up for the fact that you don't read a newspaper or even watch the news on TV."
This is a classic ad hominem attack - an attack on my person, not my argument - nor the question posed. You simply appear to be claiming I am stupid. You repeat this attack though your responses.<<

This is because I had already answered this question at length, and because the answer to this question is so basic and so obvious that I should not have to spell it out for anyone with an education and an awareness of current events.

>>I could go through your entire post to point out all the other logical fallacies that you commit, but I feel that you are done with our dialogue. <<

I'd be glad to engage in a dialogue or even an argument if you can demonstrate that you are capable of reasoning based on facts. So far you have shown that this is not the case.

>>Lastly, you might think this is silly or a waste of your time, but you are a teacher, and as such you are an example to the youth. Showing an ability to present an argument is critical for your students success, is it not? It should be equally as important to you - and certainly when you feel so passionate about your position.<<

It's equally important to show that there is a difference between genuine dialogue based on data which can be shared and the uninformed nattering rhetoric of the ideologue by not legitimizing the solipsistic question with any kind of answer.

>>It's a good thing I'm not grading this - though I do see these on first assignments.<<

Ooh, nice snide put down.

>>I leave you with a few closing thoughts you should be familiar with as you have studied history.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.John Adams (1735 - 1826), 'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials,' December 1770
The partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers of his own assertions.Plato (427 BC - 347 BC), Dialogues, Phaedo
To follow by faith alone is to follow blindly.Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence.Thomas H. Huxley (1825 - 1895)<<

Out of curiosity, do you actually read these quotes or are they just snatched out of a handy list of quotations? You certainly have plenty of them, but you must not be paying much attention to them as these three apply perfectly to your style of ideologically tainted interrogation masquerading as dialogue.

Dave
 

katie nalle said...

I went back over the post I was responding to - something which this blog software makes a bit inconvenient when actually responding. To my great amusement I note that I actually answered all of your questions in specific, so your last attack on me about avoiding dialogue was essentially spurious, suggesting that the place for you to start improving your reading skills might be with the posts you respond to.

Dave

katie nalle said...

Interesting followup to this article from today's news. Apparently Iran is backing off of their nuclear position, stating categorically that they are not going to pursue the development of any actual nuclear weapons or any further nuclear weapon research, though of course assering their right to have such weapons in priciple.

Looks like Bush's plan is actually working.

Dave